My last post was about one of the more infamous aspects of playing EVE Online - scamming. Always controversial for the community that is EVE, scamming is seen as a form of game play by CCP and is protected as such - as long as the scammer does not violate the TOS, of course. It doesn't take very long to look through EVE Online's Forums to find some great stories, rage, and calls to ban scamming, which just goes to show how many out there are utilizing this form of game play as a means to farm ISK. I have always been very vocal that I do not care for scamming (I believe that it is a quick way to scare off new players as they are the easiest victims to prey on, often unknowingly to the scammer), and I go so far as to ban my Corp members in participating in scamming in any form. That said, I actually agree with CCP that it should be allowed. I may not personally condone it and do not want that behavior associated with myself, but I also do not have sympathy for anyone who does not have the sense to beware a deal too good to be true. Sorry, but it's true - if you're gonna be stupid, you better be strong.
But being a scammer is just one art of villainy in EVE Online. The Mittani has probably been called every sour name in the book, from Mob Boss to whiny scumbag. Likewise, you have Cannibal Kane - a self-described "terrorist" preying on anyone and everything that tickles his fancy with brutal, artistic efficiency. There are Psychotic Monk and the Belligerent Undesirables, whose sole mission is to fill their corp's hangers with ALL the tears, who constantly wardec industrial corps, gank anything that comes across their guns, and are some of the best Awoxers in the game. You also have CODE., the mini-empire of James315 whom solely harass and kill Highsec miners. You have Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, and Ice Interdiction, oh my! EVE truly seems to be a scary place, after all.
To the casual observer or the pessimistic player, EVE Online seems to be a universe where the most evil, chaotic players triumphantly rule over the passive, the weak, the stupid, and/or the peaceful. I am here to tell you that - in EVE as in real life - it simply isn't true.
You are quick to say "But Coffee, you JUST posted a blog about how a poor player was scammed out of his ISK and nothing was done!". Well, dear reader, that simply isn't true either. As far as I know, the scammer was never punished and CCP has not given their thoughts on an external website scamming ISK. That said, however, angels exist in this game that will swoop in and bestow blessings upon the unfortunate. I was contacted a few short days after linking that blog piece on the EVE Forums by player Reileen Kawahara who donated the entire 150,000,000 ISK loss to the victim. I spoke in length with Reileen, and have added them to my growing list of "good people in EVE". In that one conversation, I got the feeling that Reileen and I seem to have the same outlook on gaming styles, especially when it comes to looking out for other players that need a hand.
But Reileen is just one person compared to the legions of evil, slimy baddies, right? Look, I can seriously spend the next year writing blog after blog about all the acts of charity in EVE Online that would completely dwarf the stories of acts of evil. If you look around, you'll find some amazing things that people invest loads of time, money and hard earned ISK just to benefit other EVE players. Here's just a few examples:
Sindel's Angel Project
Vaerah Vahrokha's ISK-to-Charity relief fund initiative
PLEX for GOOD
Mourning Vile Rat and donating to his family
Players giving loads of gifts away (way, way too many to link)
Chribba Fucking Veldspar (you heard bells tinging when you read his name, didn't you?)
Hell, even the so-called "villains" in EVE can't help themselves from helping their fellow EVE players from time to time. Notorious scammer Erotica1 was my first introduction to what having a "spy" in your corp meant in EVE Online. Despite losing my very first ship and pod to his alt (in my first month of playing while in an industrial corp, if I remember right), he took the time to pull me aside and explain what went wrong for me. We talked for a little while about his scamming conquests, my horrible ship fitting and some tips on the game in general. He then contracted my drops back to me and then my wallet flashed - 100 million ISK! "That should help you get started in EVE o7," he said, then flew off to find more victims.
Obviously if I advocate this type of behavior I better be walking-the-walk, right? Well, if you know me, you know I do. Since setting up Thrall Industrial, I've given away Navy Apocs and PLEX to corpies as Christmas presents (using ISK earned through speculation - I'm not rich by any means). Thrall's Director of Industry found his way into my corp after he lost his first mining barge in Lowsec. Seeing he was a newer player, I talked with him and gave him one of Thrall's loaner barges to replace his loss. Shortly after that, he asked to join and since then has been very active with us. I try to make sure that everyone's play style is respected, and work hard to see that we always have free ship hulls for members so they don't worry so much about losing their own in PvP. I've donated to Alexia Morgan's Touring New Eden corporation. I give away my ISK, my skillbooks, and my time to newbros, enemies and corpies alike.
And if you sit back and really think about it you'll realize I'm not the only one out there doing it, am I? Don't let the stories of the harsh edge of EVE online blind you to the random acts of kindness occurring every moment of the day, everywhere in this game.
Btw, I will correct any spelling errors and add tags later. I had surgery yesterday and am still recovering, which led to a bit of insomnia. Obviously, the plus side was I finally got to get back to the blog after a long hiatus!
ReplyDeleteThanks again EVE Online for tweeting this blog post. I'm incredibly excited right now!
You name 5 people/corps out of hundreds of thousands of accounts lol. It's like 1/10 of 1 % of EVE players are decent people in game. And 100 mil isk giveaways or what ever that's small change. You will get ganked in ships worth Billions and that's the nature of EVE.
ReplyDeleteI understand why you are writing this but do not fool these poor people into Playing EVE. I would say in less then 1% of cases of getting ganked will they pull you aside and explain why they are scumbags and refund your loss.
You mad bro?
DeleteWhen it comes down to it, if your flying Billions and Billions of ships, then you should be wise enough to not lose it, or at least have enough to replace it.
When it comes down to it, the EVE community realizes it needs more people to play, and as a whole you see people helping new guys out more then not.
If you think everyone is so evil, then people would be camping nub systems where people start and no one would be able to even launch their new ships.
Perhaps your just bitter? It isn't a game for the carebears!
People don't camp noob systems because they WILL be banned for it. Otherwise, they would camp noob systems as I have seen them do at times.
DeleteWell, it seemed a tad excessive to name literally every single player in EVE Online and define each as "good" or "evil". I'll take that into consideration next time :eyeroll:.
DeleteActually, Erotica1 killed my noob fit destroyer. So, technically he "refunded my loss" 100x over - plus the advice. But, to your point, no, most griefers are in it for tears and not to help you. Hence the term "griefer" and not "Saint Awoxer, the Divine One".
I'm here to tell you, friend, that you have your numbers mixed up. I'd stick money on that .01% of the players in this game are indecent, with the other 99.9% being categorized as at least "decent" folk.
I don't know who touched you, or where, but I feel bad that you have such a skewed view of EVE's gaming community. I'd talk with you further on it, but I have a gut feeling it'd be an exercise in insanity :)
I feel like I was a bit mean to you, The Truth. Since you don't know me, I should point out that I have a very sarcastic sense of humor. I genuinely do look forward to see you replying to more of my blogs in the future.
DeleteBut I did want to follow up with something regarding these "villains" and "angels" that I named. First, you say I named "5 people/corps". Look again. The contributions to Vile Rat; Vaerah's Relief Fund (managed by Grindell these days, I think); The Angel Project; PLEX for GOOD - these are all accomplished through literally thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of philanthropic players. They may have been started by one or two people, but have succeeded through the charitable contributions of the EVE community as a whole.
And as for the Villains? EVE needs those people to play that part (some admittedly do so as a form of role-playing), or we would have no one to compare our own actions to. I suggested that even these 'evil' players are not always evil. Click on the Vile Rat link - that leads to a very openhearted, emotional Mittani mourning the loss of a friend. I have witnessed Cannibal Kane valiantly protecting a new player industrial corp from a bullying war-dec corp (for free). Even the Belligerent Undesirables have been known to take new players under their wing.
My point: EVE people love EVE people. Just take a step back and widen your gaze, and you'll see it.
o7 Fly hated, fly safe - just go fly!
I think The Truth is missing the point. It's not about quantity when helping, it's about the helping. 100mil is a pretty huge boost when you are a 2 month old pilot and not into a significant amount of skill point. That 100mil will buy you a decent battlecruiser to fly level 2 and some level 3 missions to start building your bank, or a decent barge to increase your output so you can make more money. It's not a boost to the best possible anything you can buy, it's a boost to get you on your feet and make your stance a bit more stable.
ReplyDeleteOne thing to remember when you are tossing out statistics and percentages is that not everyone is a member of the control group you are referencing. People like Chribba and The Mittani are famous. but there are thousands of other players that you never hear about that just go about their daily business, be it piracy or philanthropy.
"People like Chribba and The Mittani are famous. but there are thousands of other players that you never hear about that just go about their daily business, be it piracy or philanthropy."
DeleteBingo.
Hey Coffee, really enjoying your blog! Do keep it up :D
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to seeing where this blog goes.
ReplyDeleteI'm kind of curious about these people, good and bad, really. I've read the stories, and keep up as best as I can with a hectic lifestyle, and always wondered what - outside of teamwork - they do that I don't to find the enjoyment they do in EVE. I'm not even kidding, I have got to be the most retarded player of EVE. The amount of stupid deaths I've had are staggering. I have Salvage 5, but do not fly a Noctis. I have actually lost a Viator in Lowsec, something that just should not happen. Etc. Stop doing stupid stuff? But no matter how many loses I have, no matter how many things I make that sell for under the value of what I harvest to make them... the stories, the belief that I can be a part of this world, it keeps me coming back with some consistency.
I guess we all play our part.
Sounds like you'd fit right in with our alliance lulz.
DeleteCome apply and I'll give you the lowdown ;)
A great read, I have seen a lot of good actions in the game and bad as well, my old Corp was War Dec'd and due to the nature of time zones the enemy Corp thought we were dodging them, one asked to undock and 1 on 1 in Cruisers, I accepted, it was a good fight, he won of course. He gave me tips on fitting the ship out, what drones to run, ammo and so on. He then gave me back the items that survived.
ReplyDeleteI think I still have him on my friends list actually, and this was from about 2005, near the end of the year. I started in June 05, Over the years I have seen the numbers grow in the game, I tell people to try it out if they ask, I work as an IT tech in a retail store, so the boys always say to customers, "Our tech is a gamer, ask him", which starts onto what I play, when I talk about EVE I will tell them, you will either hate or love it, no middle ground. Explaining the scope of the game can be hard, telling people that no matter what is in the game you can do it, they find it hard to accept after playing MMO's that limit you to classes.
What people need to know is EVE is a massive open ended game, if you want to Care-bear you can, if you want to be a pirate in low sec you can. It's a factor I love in the game, currently I am a high sec mission running care-bear, but I am also making Rigs and putting them on the market, which all the pirates and null sec players use. The game is a massive circle and without each other, it will die.
I will finish my rambling with one statement: "EVE is not a game, it's a lifestyle", this is something I say a lot. Fly Safe as can be and see you in the EVEning.
I find that if you simply don't finish rambling at all, you end up with a blog that people visit and comment on.
DeleteTrue story.
Look forward to reading more from you - I like hearing stories like these!
For the most part as you stated EVE is a decent place. You have corps/alliances going about their business, you have people missioning, mining, hauling just going about whichever goal they have in mind for themselves or their corp.
ReplyDeleteThen when you lift that cover of decency you get us. That small percentage of players that turns people lives in EVE upside down. Now for the most part bad people will always make the news. It is very rare for anybody to see a post or story that is not based on somebody getting killed or robbed of his isk and items in EVE. As a result a 3rd party from the outside looking in at EVE only sees when people get shafted. Even though your talking a very small % of the EVE populace that revel in chaos. Bad news sells right?
Who am I? I am one of that small % in EVE that lurk below the veil of decency. I watch and plan, preparing my next war against my unwilling targets all in the hopes of earning ISK. I am Cannibal Kane...
Ladies and gentlemen, here he is... the man whose stories finally convinced me to join EVE. If you haven't read the "The Adventures of Cannibal Kane" (i.e., the Pirate Story Thread), I encourage you to do so.
Deletehttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6304&find=unread
I intended to follow in the footsteps of those in the Pirate Story Thread, but I found myself gravitating more towards the roles of leadership, planning and diplomacy instead. EVE will do that to you - you may log in planning to create one thing, and magically you find talent elsewhere and enjoy it more.
Kane, I'm delighted you took the time to comment here. I'm having a fanboi moment lol \o/
I find that most people in Eve are decent enough. There are times when i've been quite cross and offensive to people mainly because of pvp losses (i dont do FW anymore :) But Eve is a game where it is supposed to be a steep learning curve and once you've learned how a ganker thinks its easier to avoid certain death even in high sec. (But certainly not impossible).
ReplyDeleteIts just about learning the ropes and finding a decent corp to show you them, no one's bad they are just 'opportunistic' (i cant name names of anyone who is really bad). Even I might consider blowing someone up if I thought it was worth it, and I mainly mine and run security missions.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1huj84/best_korea_tackled_me_then_said_i_could_pay/ I was involved in this little story. I find that, as you said, the "bad guys" are often incredibly generous and helpful, particularly to newer players which is probably part of the reason that the EVE Online community has continued to steadily grow it's userbase over the last DECADE. Not many other games have managed that feat, particularly when you consider how niche EVE Online is.
ReplyDeleteThat's.... that's just the best thing I've read all day haha
DeleteI loved Eve for a while, but when I saw CCP was an official sponsor of one of the Hulkageddons, that killed the fun for me. Their sponsorship of Hulkageddon told me that CCP sees me, a non-PVP Highsec player just having fun, as content for their real customers - the PVP crowd. I don't want to be content, so I'll go to a game where I can do my thing. And I see why CCP does that - when someone gets obliterated by a ship that costs 10% of the ship they destroyed, you've got some good incentive to buy Plex so you can replace what you just lost. And that's all money in CCP's pocket so the more it happens, the more money they make. At least short-term.
ReplyDeleteI used to run newbie mining ops, using my Hulk, and I'd split the ore equally with everyone who joined in. I'd run missions with newbies, even run cargo for folks in my Iteron IV or my Obelisk to help them get better prices. I liked helping people. But the fact remains that CCP sees me as content for others, and I do not want that role. Before I left, every day I'd end up logging off ticked off. I loved the game, but the community that I was exposed to really left me wanting.
It would be different if exposing yourself to risk and danger was a choice. But with Eve I found the only choice to avoid that was to not play.
I get there are nice people in the game, who are helpful. But the jerks, scammers, gankers, griefers, and CCP's enthusiastic support for that ruined the game for me.
I can see the draw for lots of people, it just doesn't work for me. I wish it did - I really, really miss the game. I loved it so much I ran two accounts. I wish I could still enjoy it. But I don't enjoy PVP, or dealing with the seamy underside of the community, and there's no way for me to avoid it in Eve.
You know, the very first person that introduced me to EVE was a former VP of mine, way back in 2007(ish). I was at his house and looking over his shoulder as he showed me the game. I ended up trying WoW first, instead of EVE (lulz).
DeleteJust recently I contacted him to see if he still played EVE. It turns out he had quit years ago, and his reasoning was very similar to what you had to say here.
I've often contemplated if CCP could do a separate server strictly for non-PVP types, but I just don't see it working out well for the current population of the game. Maybe I'm wrong though - if they did a "PVE-only Server" where players could be separate from the rest of us, would you come back?
I don't think I'd need a separate server. I like being able to task risks. I just want to be able to choose. Maybe one day I feel like making cargo runs through lowsec. Or doing probing in nulsec in my cloak boat. Maybe the next day I'm keeping an eye on my kids while playing, and I just want to be left alone. If there was a safe place, like if highsec was actually a safe place to do my thing, then I'd come back and love being there.
DeleteI would still go to lowsec from time to time when I was in the mood. It's nice to have the option. Right now there are no options.
CCP pointed to this Blog and it's been the best time Ice mining I've every had...:)
ReplyDeleteMost people just play the game the way its designed,
if Eve didn't have "those who killed ships", "we who build ships" would be out of business.
That being said, there are douche bags in Eve as there are douche bags in life.
I think you'll find the ratio is about the same..:)
I have been poking around at EVE since '07.I have been the noob,tried everything in the game at least once now and I can tell you firsthand that although EVE is a harsh world to live in it is only because it is more extreme....the good is very GOOD and the bad is very BAD. To make my point: when I started out years ago I went solo and played EVE as a single player game....until one day out mining in my little mining frigate jetcanning my ore a megathron pops up out of nowhere and flips my can....and my aggressive little drones attack him....next thing I know I am back in station wondering what just happened...Well turns out the guy who popped me was the CEO of universal mining out on a recruiting drive. HE chatted me up and we spoke at length, he returned all that I had lost and took me under his wing in Universal mining where I spent Two very enjoyable years with a bunch of great guys. Well that corporation finally broke up and I left eve for a while...only to return and try to build a new corp with the same feel....after much blood sweat and tears I was successful and now am the founder of an alliance that does it's best to help out whoever we can....
ReplyDeleteyes there are monsters in EVE but there are helpful folk as well.
My name is Kavin Nasher in game....